Chapters 3, 4 & 5

Hi all - Here are a few more notes on the next chapters of the book:

Chapter 3 - Why do we call it “translation”?

Something doesn’t exist just because we have a word for it (e.g. levitation)

Translation is both a thing and a process

Translation from the Latin means: “to bear across” “to carry across”, but etymology of a word doesn’t necessarily equate with its current meaning.

In other languages “translation” is called “turning”, “transmitting”, “speaking after”

Considerable focus placed on the idea of “carrying over” meaning. But what meaning?

Chapter 4 - Things people say about translation

The false wisdom of “A translation is no substitute for the original”. Of course it is. That’s exactly what it is: a substitute for the original.

People who make this claim are seeking to establish their authority: i.e. that they are fit to judge the original and a translation thereof, and to determine that the translation isn’t as good.

The only thing this adage does is “provide spurious cover for the view that translation is second-rate”.

Chapter 5 - "Foreign-Soundingness"

How “foreign” should a translation sound?

Why do we praise a text that sounds as if it were originally written in the target language?

Should translators leave parts of the text in the source language to make it sound foreign?

If so, how much?

For Ancient Greeks, foreigners sounded like “va-va-va” when they spoke (i.e. blah-blah-blah), which is why they called them “vavaros”, the origin of “barbarians”.

“…foreign-soundingness of a translation can only reproduce or reinforce what the receiving culture already imagines the foreign to be”.

Why should an author “sound” like his native tongue? Kafka doesn’t sound German in German – he sounds like Kafka.

Foreign-soundingness is only possible when the target audience is familiar with the source culture.

Fish in Your Ear - Comments Chap 1 & 2

I mentioned in an earlier post that I was going to re-read the book (Is That a Fish in Your Ear?) and post some comments, so here goes.

The main topic of the book is: What is translation? and What is it that translation does?

Chapter 1 begins by saying that translation is difficult to study and to understand, because it varies in so many ways. A hundred translators could very well produce 100 different translations of the same text, while there would only be a tiny chance of any two out of those 100 translations being identical.

In short, translation isn't an exact science, but that's part of its charm.

Chapter 2 asks the question: Is translation avoidable/necessary?

Bellos says that three possibilities have been historically tested:

1) Learn all the languages of people with whom you have contact (e.g. India)

2) Everyone must speak one common language (e.g. Roman empire)

3) Ignore anyone who doesn’t speak your language (e.g. Albania post WWII)

Since the British Empire, English has emerged as a global language. But why?

- Common myth that it is “easier” to learn than others (false)

- Economic/military power played a role, but it also has survived by default (many others have fallen from use: French, German, Latin, etc.)

Attempts have been made at a “global” language: e.g. Esperanto

- It's unlikely ever to succeed without some other impetus (economic, military, scientific, etc.)

So translation is avoidable, but most likely necessary.

I'd love to hear other translators/interpreters thoughts. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

-John

Fish in your ear - The Interview

Good morning. I have yet another link related to the book: Is That a Fish in your Ear? This time, it's an interview on NPR with the book's author, David Bellos. Looks like at least one translator is getting some national recognition in the States.

Enjoy!

-John

Translation article - Salon.com

Another quick post: I just read this article http://www.salon.com/2011/10/30/how_do_you_say_balls_of_gold_in_french/singleton/#

from Salon.com, which touches on some of the issues discussed in David Bellos's book. Interesting stuff, indeed.

Is That a Fish in Your Ear? Time for comments

Hello fellow CATI bookworms,

As I mentioned in my last post, I recently bought and read the book "Is That a Fish in Your Ear?" by David Bellos. It's a very good read in general, and I highly recommend it for anyone in the translation/interpreting sector.

There are so many good points addressed that I don't where to begin, but over the next few weeks, I'm going to re-read the chapters and post some thoughts on this blog.

Please feel free to comment, and if you have the chance, pick up the book and let me know what you think. I'll look forwarding to hearing from you.

-John

Is That a Fish in Your Ear?

Hello CATI book-lovers! I hope that you've had a good summer. It's been far too long since I've posted on the blog, but I've been incredibly busy, having recently relocated to the south of Brazil, where I will be working for the next 6 months.

In any event, yesterday, I read a good review in The Economist of a book about translation entitled Is That a Fish in Your Ear?, by David Bellos, and I thought that it would be a great book to suggest to get our book club back up and running.

So, please have a look at the review and/or the book, and let's see if we can get another discussion going online. Hope to hear from you all soon.

Best regards,

-John

More on Translator and Interpreter as Protagonist

Sorry about all the spaces in the previous post. I'm copying from a Word file. This book review is along the same lines and mentions other works.

Susan

From the AIIC website:
Book review: Interpreters and translators as literary creations
By Phil Smith
Wortklauber, Sinnverdreher, Brückenbauer
DolmetscherInnen und ÜbersetzerInnen als literarische Geschöpfe
[Pedants, traducers or bridge builders. Interpreters and translators as literary creations]
Ingrid Kurz, Klaus Kaindl (editors)
Im Spiegel der Literatur Band 1
LIT Verlag Vienna 2005
ISBN 3-8258-8495-3
The editors of this collection of essays know that we interpreters enjoy seeing ourselves depicted in book or film yet cannot help judging the accuracy of any description of our profession or its practitioners, even if the interpreter is no more than a convenient hook on which to hang the story within the confines of artistic licence. This book does not set out to provide an academic study of the interpreter in literature, but simply to give us a taste of how others view our lives and work.
Do you remember the film "The Full Monty" about steel workers in the north of England who decided to strip when made redundant? There is a scene where they try to learn dance routines from a film about a female welder who's also a great dancer. One of the would-be strippers comments "I hope she's a better dancer than welder, her oxygen mix is all wrong".
Like the welder, we cannot entirely switch off, so if we read or see a depiction of an interpreter, our critical faculties slip into overdrive. We inevitably put ourselves into the shoes of the protagonist (Selbstverortung in der dargestellten Welt).
This deftly edited short book considers 15 works of literature that feature translators and interpreters. The reviews were written by working professionals who submitted a short piece on a work that they had read.
The thread that runs through all the reviewed stories is the interpreter as perpetual outsider, a person who does not live entirely in just one culture, but commutes between them and is therefore rootless and envious of those with a clear-cut identity. Language is often the well-spring of a firm sense of self. Home for an interpreter is his or her native language, yet because of where they live interpreters may have lost their mother tongue - they are geographically and linguistically adrift. The constant processing of the world around us that multilingualism brings can be a burden, and the interpreter may envy others the security of speaking just one language.
Interpreters in literature appear ready made with all their languages - by accident of birth or linguistic osmosis - and few authors appear aware that most of us have had to acquire our languages from scratch and learn our tradecraft. There are also some flashes of insight, for example the idea that sometimes you can only understand what people are saying once they've finished saying it (...bestimmte Aussagen erst im nachhinein auf ihre tatsächliche Bedeutung hin interpretierbar sind).
Some of the characteristics ascribed to interpreters ring a bell: an interpreter is always to some extent an outsider, aware of different ways of speaking, thinking and doing; an interpreter's own family history is often reflected in the languages she speaks; an interpreter never entirely switches off but is always on the lookout for that expression or well-honed phrase, and perhaps it is fair to talk of the "burden of bilingualism".
The reviewers find the portrayals of interpreters generally sympathetic, even insightful, although our colleague Sergio Viaggio is clearly no fan of Javier Marías' Corazón tan Blanco - the scene in the book where two interpreters work for a thinly veiled Margaret Thatcher and a thinly disguised Felipe González has acquired a kind of cult status amongst interpreters; I guess you either love it or hate it.
Each thought-provoking essay is short and deals with an individual work, which makes this a good book for dipping into.
As Robbie Burns said in his poem "The Louse" written in 1786:
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
The works considered are:
Liselotte Marshall - Tongue-tied
Ingeborg Bachmann - Simultan
Abdelkebir Khatibi - Un été à Stockholm
Suki Kim - The Interpreter
Jonathan Safran Foers - Everything is illuminated
Jesús Díaz - Siberiana
Jhumpa Lahiris - Interpreter of Maladies
Ágnes Gergely - Die Dolmetscherin (A tolmács)
György Dalos - Der Versteckspieler
Michael Frayn - The Russian Interpreter
Christine Arnothy - Toutes les chances plus une
Doris Lessing - The Summer before the Dark

Translator and Interpreter as Protagonist

Hi-- I started this list in a fit of procrastination and wanted to share it. This is literature about translators and interpreters. Not all the comments about the works are mine. Perhaps the group would like to read one of these? Or, perhaps those who have read one or more of these books would like to comment on them?







Fiction



The Interpreter: A Novel, by Suki Kim







The Interpreter, by Suzanne Glass







OK, Joe, by Louis Guilloux, translated by Alice Kaplan







Songs for the Butcher’s Daughter: A Novel, by Peter Manseau







*Bel Canto, by Ann Patchett Patchett (very annoying book about an interpreter in which the word interpreter is not used once) (I loved Bel Canto... Did you notice how when they drew up the list for which hostages would stay and which would go free, the interpreter was on neither list? Invisible...)







*The Mission Song, by John Le Carré (interpreter spy thriller)







*The Adventure of the Greek Interpreter, by Arthur Conan Doyle



The Strand Magazine, volume VI, London, 1893 (available online)







Between Mountains, by Maggie Helwig (featuring an interpreter at the Hague and a reporter who has made his career interviewing a man on trial for war crimes - not sure whether he's actually called Karadzic in the novel, but it's based on him)











Non-Fiction



The Interpreter, by Alice Kaplan (about Louis Guilloux)







Le Ton Beau De Marot: In Praise Of The Music Of Language, by Douglas Hofstadter (among other things, about translating a poem)







The Translator: A Memoir, by Daoud Hari. About Darfur.







*If This Be Treason: Translation and Its Dyscontents, A Memoir, by Gregory Rabassa







The Origins of Simultaneous Interpretation: The Nuremberg Trial, by Francesca Gaiba







White House Interpreter: The Art of Interpretation, Harry Obst







Interpreters as Diplomats: A Diplomatic History of the Role of Interpreters in World Politics (Perspectives on Translation), Ruth Roland

The Girl Who Played With Fire & More Books

I'm following up on my last post, regarding both a change in format to our book club and the movie version of the second book in the Millennium trilogy.

For starters, I'd like to hear what everyone has been reading over the summer. Feel free to comment on a book that you've liked (or didn't like) and why.

I've been reading a book called "The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao", written by Junot Díaz. It won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction in 2008. Very interesting read. It's ostensibly about the life of a Dominican boy born in New Jersey in the 1970s, but it's just as much a commentary about the lasting impact of Rafael Trujillo, the dictator who ruthlessly ruled the Dominican Republic from 1930 to 1961.

I also had a chance to see The Girl Who Played With Fire at the movies last week. As with the first movie, it makes a solid attempt to be true to the book, but it is hard to cram all of the details into a 2-hour film. The result, while visually interesting, is that the movie fell a bit flat, in my opinion. Not nearly as well-paced as the first film, and with a lot less depth overall.

Has anyone else seen it?

The Movie and Some Changes

Once again, it has been too long since we've had any activity on this blog, so I thought that I would take advantage of the fact that I finally got to see the movie version of "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" to post here again.

I don't know who else has seen the movie, but I have to say, I felt that they did a really good job of representing the book, in all the unpleasant details. I'll look forward to seeing the next film in the series, which I believe is already showing in some theaters.

I've also heard that they're going to make an English version of the movie. Something tells me that it just won't be the same. But we'll see.

Anyway, in other news, the last time that Heather and I met with the board, we discussed making some changes to our format on this blog in order to get more activity and make it more interactive. One of the ideas is to include Skype conferencing to discuss books. We've also talked about including movies, especially when they are related to books that we've read!

Another idea, which I've wanted to get some feedback on, would be to free up everyone on the blog to discuss whatever you're reading, rather than choosing a specific book to read. That way, we can all hear about all the different books that people are reading, what they like and dislike, recommendations, etc.

I'd be interested to hear what you think, so please feel free to comment below or to post your own thoughts at any time.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

-John

Checking in, and a new movie!

Hello Fellow CATI book readers,

We haven't had any activity on the blog for a while, so I thought that I'd check in to see how everyone is doing. Please feel to post at any time.

I've actually been busy reading a few other books over the past couple of weeks, including Anathem, by Neal Stephenson, and Victorian Firebrand, by Richard Reeves (still currently reading). I haven't gotten to our current book yet, but I'm interested to hear from those who have already finished it.

I also wanted to include this link to Rotten Tomatoes (a movie website), where "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" movie has gotten some very positive reviews. Has anyone seen the film? I'd be interested to find out how it compares to the book. I'm planning on seeing it in the near future.

Cheers,

John

And our next book is...

...The Girl Who Played With Fire. Back by popular demand, we'll be reading Stieg Larsson's second book in the Millennium Trilogy.

Let's take a week or so for everyone to get their hands on a copy, then feel free to start posting comments on the blog.

Happy reading!

-John

Reminder: Vote on the next book!

Hi! A quick post to remind everyone to vote on our next book. Just go to the blog and click on your choice. We'll have the results in soon.

Thanks,

John

Vote On The Next Book

Vote for the next book you would like to read with the CATI Book Club. Descriptions are listed below and the poll is in the right hand column.

Turing's Delirium ~ Edmundo Paz Soldan
The landlocked South American nation of Bolivia, now politically stabilized, has long alternated democratically elected presidents with coup-installed dictators. Those coups provide the backstory for Paz Soldán's propulsive sixth novel (after The Matter of Desire): the character of the dying president, known only as Montenegro, is drawn from the two reigns of Hugo Banzer Suárez, dictator from 1971 to 1978 and an elected president from 1997 until illness and civil unrest forced his resignation in 2000. In this ultracontemporary thriller, looming revolution is fomented not by a restless right-wing military, but by a tiny clique of cyberterrorists led by genius adolescent hacker Kandinsky, an instinctive though not particularly ideological foe of transnational corporations. Charged with exposing Kandinsky and his incognito cohorts is the secretive state security organization the Black Chamber, established by Montenegro in his dictator days to spy on leftists—and whose mysterious first director, Albert, may well be a figure from Hitler's Third Reich.

The Girl Who Played with Fire ~ Stieg Larsson
Stieg Larsson's seething heroine, Lisbeth Salander, once again finds herself paired with journalist Mikael Blomkvist on the trail of a sinister criminal enterprise. Only this time, Lisbeth must return to the darkness of her own past (more specifically, an event coldly known as "All the Evil") if she is to stay one step ahead--and alive. The Girl Who Played with Fire is a break-out-in-a-cold-sweat thriller that crackles with stunning twists and dismisses any talk of a sophomore slump. Fans of Larsson's prior work will find even more to love here, and readers who do not find their hearts racing within the first five pages may want to confirm they still have a pulse.


The Exception ~ Christian Jungersen
Iben, Malene and Camilla work in Copenhagen for the Danish Center for Information on Genocide. Even before Iben and Malene receive death threats with Nazi overtones, the three friends had been ostracizing the new librarian, Anne-Lise. Though evidence suggests Serbian war criminal Mirko Zigic has been sending the death threats, the paranoia and fear of the three friends converge to make Anne-Lise the target of rising suspicion. Victimizing is part of human nature, Anne-Lise's doctor tells her when she seeks advice, and the novel hauntingly pursues this idea to its deepest implications. Can people fighting genocide display the same traits as war criminals? What does it mean to be evil?

An end...and a new beginning

Hello fellow CATI bookworms!

I think that we have all finished, or nearly finished, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, so starting next week, please feel free to comment on all aspects of it. I'm interested to see what kind of discussion we get going.

In the meantime, I've been receiving suggestions for the next book to read. Heather is putting together a way to vote online, which we hope to have ready next week.

If you're having any technical issues posting or receiving updates, please let us know and we'll try to get them worked out.

Have a good day,

-John

End date for discussion

I see that posts and comments are increasing on the blog, which is great, so I'd like to set a date for everyone to finish the book. That way, we can discuss all the details without worrying about spoiling it for others.

How does February 15th sound?

My visit to Blomkvist's neighborhood / Comments on the translation

I've finally read enough of the book to post about it. I have a good American friend who lives in Stockholm. My husband and I visited her in summer of 2008, so I am able to picture a lot of the places in and near Stockholm that are mentioned in the book. Sergels Torg is mentioned once so far-that's the square in the heart of Stockholm. So much of Stockholm was strikingly beautiful, so I was shocked at how unattractive Sergels Torg was, even reminiscent of Communist block buildings. Ahlens department store, also in the book, is a very large store right next to Sergels Torg. In central Stockholm in general, there are a lot of upscale furniture shops with that modern look we attribute to Ikea. When we visited my friend, she lived in Karlaplan, a nice part of Östermalm in central Stockholm. Now she lives in Södermalm, the southern island of Stockholm proper-literally just down the street from our character Mikael Blomkvist!

Visiting my friend got me interested in Swedish culture and climate. When we were in Stockholm, it was very close to the summer solstice, or Midsommar as they call it, which is a big holiday celebrated by all. The tradition apparently is to get out of Stockholm and spend several days in a country cottage. Unfortunately we just missed Midsommar, but we did enjoy the long, long hours of sunlight. It didn't turn twilight until around 10:30 at night and never got completely dark. The descriptions in the book of small town Sweden have further convinced me to go up to Norrland, or somewhere north of Stockholm in Sweden and Norway the next time we visit (who knows when that will be). I think Stockholm at Christmas would also be charming, but all the Swedes I talked to advised me against going then, saying the only time to visit Sweden is in the summer. I'd get tired of the dark winters too, but I'd love to experience it for a brief time.

As for the English translation, a few things caught my eye. For one, the word "gaol" (as John pointed out) keeps throwing me off. The translator used British spelling, but the temperature is in Fahrenheit. I didn't realize that the British press actually uses both Fahrenheit and Celsius. Also, I guess the translator included a few Swedish words in order to infuse more foreignness into the story? For example, he used the word "skål", which means "cheers". You can figure that out by context, but it may not be immediately obvious. That reminds me of another book I read recently, Labyrinth, which had a whole lot of untranslated French in it. I could only pick out a few words in several sentences, so I was often lost. However, this book was originally written in English, so the effect was definitely to create a sense of foreignness, not to preserve some effect of the original.

Let's get started?

Happy 2010 to one and all!

Just checking in to see if anyone else has had a chance to start reading the book. I'm about 200 pages into it, but I'm going to hold off on comments until there are others on this journey as well.

Hope to hear from you soon.

-John

Initial comments on the book

Hope you're all enjoying the holidays. I started the book this weekend and made a few notes:

First, the translator is Reg Keeland, aka Steven T. Murray, an American literary translator originally from Berkeley, CA, who has translated over 20 books. Just out of curiosity, does anyone on this blog speak Swedish?

The story is set in Stockholm, Sweden, in modern times (early 2000s?), and the protagonist, Blomkvist, says he has an apartment on "Bellmansgatan", which I discovered is a road on an island in central Stockholm.

The nickname "Kalle" comes up quite a bit at the outset and is apparently common in Sweden for Karl/Carl. In particular, there is reference to Kalle Blomkvist from books by Astrid Lindgren in 1940s/50s (aka Bill Bergson in English translations), who was "a more-or-less ordinary Swedish boy with an extraordinary fascination for detective work". Perhaps the fictitious "Kalle Blomkvist" is the Swedish version of the Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew?

Any initial thoughts/comments/questions?

-John

p.s. I noticed that the translator used "gaol" (i.e. British variant of "jail"), at least in my copy.

Stieg Larsson

Happy holidays!

I haven’t had time to start reading the book yet, but I was able to do a little research on the author, Stieg Larsson, who passed away before the book was published. He’s quite an interesting character in and of himself. If anyone is interested, check out these links:

http://www.stieglarsson.com/Life-and-work

Telegraph article

Vanity Fair article

Enjoy,

John